http://www.t-nation.com/category.jsp?categoryID=40 T-Nation: Steroids en-us Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:24:40 GMT Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:24:40 GMT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss T-Nation via P-APP-14 webmaster@biotest.net webmaster@biotest.net 40 60 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1879427
First off please don't email me asking for juice connections, I don't have any to give out. I am happy to help people with cycle plans but won't hook you up with a connection. I am not a medical professional, just a dude that knows a lot about juice so take my advice as just that.

So on to the guide...

you wanna learn about juice eh. Well the purpose of this thread is twofold:

1. There are way too many "this is my first cycle, does this look ok" threads junking up the steroid page and they all get the same response so I am going to try to save everyone some time. Read it. Re-read it until you understand it so you don't waste people's time with questions that have been asked a thousand times.

2. I would like to provide everyone that is trying to learn with a very quick and easy guide to understand how to put together a proper cycle that will match their goals. This is really the basis of what you need to know. My reasons are kinda selfish for this - I would like androgens to be legal for use (over the counter) in my country one day before I die; for this to happen we are gonna need to educate people so they stop fucking up and giving gear a bad name.

PART I - YOUR FIRST CYCLE

There seems to be two schools of thought on first cycles:

One camp says juice hard your first cycle (about 1-1.5g/week), primarily test (500-1000mg/w) and then a secondary compound and orals to make up the rest because you will make you best gains on your first so you might as well max it out. My issue with this approach is there is a very high potential for things to go wrong so you need to be really well prepared, well educated about dealing with sides, and you need to trust your ancilliary source (to mitigate side effects).

The other camp says use a moderate amount of test only *500-600mg/w) and use more test/different compounds on successive cycles to continue making gains. Save the Deca, Tren, Masteron, EQ, Winny, HGH, IGF-1, etc, etc that you have heard about to get more out of future cycles...chances are this isn't going to be the only cycle you run so add them into future cycles one at a time so you know what works best for you and you continue to see big gains in future cycles. They don't really work better than test, they just work different so you might as well start with just test to see how your body reacts to it...I will go over all the other compounds in the later sections so just forget about them until you understand this one.

I am not sure anymore which camp I am in...I think the more conservative one just because it is an easier learning process and a bit safer but that is not to say it will produce better gains. That would require a lot more research of both protocols head to head.

This is an ideal first cycle for everyone or at least a base to build on:

(NOTE - W X-Y means start of week X to end of week Y)

Cycle Plan
W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)

This would be an example of a camp number 2 keep it simple cycle. You don't really need to get more complicated than this but if you want to below are some typical inclusions for a first cycle...

Optional secondary additions
W 1-4 Dbol 10mg 3x/d if you want an oral kickstart or just a little something extra thrown in mid cycle when your test is kicking in (seems most lately are going with the latter)
W 1-8 Deca 300mg/w if you want some additional bulking help
W 1-8 Tren Enth 150mg E3D if you want additional strength help
W 6-12 Proviron 25mg 2x/d if you want some help with libido

Optional Ancilliaries
W 1-12 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms (itchy/tender nipples) start to show
W 1-10 Caber 0.5mg 2x/w if you are having prolactin issues (difficulty getting an erection when on tren or deca)
W 3-10 HCG 250iu 3x/w if you want to prevent your nuts from shrinking and make recovery easier

Post Cycle Therapy starts week 13

It is the same with either approach...you just have to make sure that your gear is cleared from your system before you start PCT (or it won't work because you will still be getting suppressed from the gear).

PCT Option 1 (SERM PCT)
W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

PCT Option 2 (Test Stasis and Taper)
W 10-12 Off (if your cycle was enth 2 weeks is enough to drop down to normal levels)
W 13-14 Test Enth 40mg E3D (stasis portion to mimic normal hormone levels)
W 15-16 Test Enth 30mg E3D (taper portion)
W 17-18 Test Enth 20mg E3D
W 19-20 Test Enth 10mg E3D

The taper gradually takes your body below normal androgen levels slowly enough that it is able to kick in and compensate. There is a much more detailed explaination of this in the "Test Taper Protocol" sticky thread so I suggest you read that if you are interested in this approach.

Now that you know what to take lets talk about who should cycle and what to eat and train.

YOU SHOULD NOT CYCLE IF:

1. You are under the age of 25
The reason is that your natural test is still very high and you are able to make very good gains without gear. There is also a very good likelyhood that you are going to end up messing up your endocrine system because you are still in a period where it is fluctuating. If you are not making good gains you need to look at your training and nutrition. I personally waited until I was 27 to start taking gear even though I was ready to rock when I was 20 so I know how you feel but you need to trust that with proper diet and training you can make gains naturally. The rare exception is individuals with a lot of training experience in their teens who have already acheived a very high level of physical development (230lbs+) and is already at or near their genetic limit. If you are one of the rare individuals who has already reach a very high level of development through consistent training the absolute earliest you should consider gear is 20.

2. You are over 25 but have been training less than 5 years
If you have not been working your ass off in the gym for at least 5 years naturally with good nutrition you have a lot of natural potential left. It is best to exhaust as much of your natural potential possible before resorting to gear. Gear should be the final piece of the puzzle to your ideal physique. By gearing up too soon you may be short changing yourself.

3. Your diet and training is crap
Gear is not a magical pill. It makes hard work more rewarding, it doesn't give results for doing nothing. All you will get is some temporary water retention which will be gone when your cycle ends. Diet and training on gear is everything. Period. You should have a very good idea of what you are going to eat (including macronutrient breakdown) and what your training plan is going to be. If you aren't already eating properly you can make some very good gains by doing so first naturally. If you aren't already training properly you can make some very good gains naturally...make use of that then think about gear. This site has a wealth of info on both topics. If your training and diet is off you will just waste your money doing a cycle.

4. You are a fat guy looking to get "cut", "ripped", or "shredded"
If you are a big fatso and think gear is going to make you slim and jacked it isn't going to happen. Fatloss comes from proper diet and training. If you can't cut down without the gear you will have just as much trouble on the gear. If you are looking for something to aid fatloss try a fatburner and then add on muscle once you have cut down.

It will look a lot more impressive and be a lot more successful....again this site has a wealth of info on losing fat...I highly recommend checking out the Velocity Diet that Gus is doing in the Physique Clinic...it shows what proper training and dieting can do. The anabolic diet is great for guys, I suggest checking it out as well because if you are fat you are likely fairly insulin resistant so cutting carbs will likely provide very damatic results. You get to eat a lot and because of what you are eating your natural testosterone will be high.

Cutting cycles are run by vets that already know what they are doing, have diet and nutrition down, and are just looking for the last little tweak to their already lean physique. Once you have achevied that status you can look at cutting cycles.

5. You are emotionally unstable
Gear can mess with your emotions. If you are an unhappy/depressed person that thinks being geared up is going to make your life better chances are you are going to feel good for a little while when on and then when you come off you are going to be lower than when you started and likely downright suicidal.

If you are a livewire that goes off in a rage when you drink, do drugs, or when someone pushes your buttons guess what? Gear is going to make this worse. If you have trouble controlling your anger then gear will make it more difficult. You will likely end up acting like a bit of a maniac and alienate your friends.

If you have answered yes to any of the above 5 questions you are not ready for gear.

Read this. Re-read this. Let it sink in. Then read everything in the Newbie thread stickied right beside this thread if you haven't already. Then come up with a plan that works best for you based on YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF GEAR. Post it on the board and get feedback once you know that you are serious and have most of the details figured out.

Happy lifting.

FG ]]> Tue, 11 Jun 2013 18:56:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1879427 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=2356081 What is Gyno?

Gynecomastia, or gynaecomastia, is the development of abnormally large mammary glands in males resulting in breast enlargement, which can sometimes cause secretion of milk. The term comes from the Greek gyne (stem gynaik-) meaning "woman" and mastos meaning "breast".

The condition can occur physiologically in neonates (due to female hormones from the mother), in adolescence, and in the elderly. In adolescent boys the condition is often a source of distress, but for the large majority of boys whose pubertal gynecomastia is not due to obesity, the breast development shrinks or disappears within a couple of years.

The causes of common gynecomastia remain uncertain, although it has generally been attributed to an imbalance of sex hormones or the tissue responsiveness to them; a root cause is rarely determined for individual cases.

Breast prominence can result from hypertrophy of breast tissue, chest adipose tissue and skin, and is typically a combination. Breast prominence due solely to excessive adipose is often termed pseudogynecomastia or sometimes lipomastia.

Gynecomastia should be distinguished from work hypertrophy of the pectoralis muscles caused by much exercise, e.g. swimming.



Some Causes:

Physiologic gynecomastia (also called Turcios Disease) occurs in neonates, at or before puberty and with aging. Many cases of gynecomastia are idiopathic, meaning they have no clear cause.

Potential pathologic causes of gynecomastia are: medications including hormones, increased serum estrogen, decreased testosterone production, androgen receptor defects, chronic kidney disease, chronic liver disease, HIV treatment, and other chronic illness.

Gynecomastia as a result of spinal cord injury and refeeding after starvation has been reported. In 25% of cases, the cause of the gynecomastia is not known.

Medications cause 10-20% of cases of gynecomastia in post-adolescent adults. These include cimetidine, omeprazole, spironolactone, imatinib mesylate, finasteride and certain antipsychotics.

Some act directly on the breast tissue, while others lead to increased secretion of prolactin from the pituitary by blocking the actions of dopamine (prolactin-inhibiting factor/PIF) on the lactotrope cell groups in the anterior pituitary.

Androstenedione, used as a performance enhancing food supplement, can lead to breast enlargement by excess estrogen activity. Medications used in the treatment of prostate cancer such as antiandrogens and GnRH analogs can also cause gynecomastia. Marijuana use is also thought by some to be a possible cause; however, published data is contradictory.

Increased estrogen levels can also occur in certain testicular tumors, and in hyperthyroidism. Certain adrenal tumors cause elevated levels of androstenedione which is converted by the enzyme aromatase into estrone, a form of estrogen. Other tumors that secrete hCG can increase estrogen.

A decrease in estrogen clearance can occur in liver disease, and this may be the mechanism of gynecomastia in liver cirrhosis. Obesity tends to increase estrogen levels.

Decreased testosterone production can occur in congenital or acquired testicular failure, for example in genetic disorders such as Klinefelter Syndrome. Diseases of the hypothalamus or pituitary can also lead to low testosterone.

Abuse of anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) has a similar effect. Mutations to androgen receptors, such as those found in Kennedy disease can also cause gynecomastia.

Although stopping these medications can lead to regression of the gynecomastia, surgery is sometimes necessary to eliminate the condition.

Repeated topical application of products containing lavender and tea tree oils among other unidentified ingredients to three prepubescent males coincided with gynecomastia; it has been theorised that this could be due to their estrogenic and antiandrogenic activity.

However, other circumstances around the study are not clear, and the sample size was insignificant so serious scientific conclusions cannot be drawn.



Treatment:

Treating the underlying cause of the gynecomastia may lead to improvement in the condition.

Patients should talk with their doctor about revising any medications that are found to be causing gynecomastia; often, an alternative medication can be ft avoids gynecomastia side-effects, while still treating the primary condition for which the original medication was found not to be suitable due to causing gynecomastia side-effects (e.g., in place of taking spironolactone the alternative eplerenone can be used.)

Selective estrogen receptor modulator medications, such as tamoxifen and clomiphene, or androgens or aromatase inhibitors such as Letrozole are medical treatment options, although they are not universally approved for the treatment of gynecomastia.

Endocrinological attention may help during the first 2-3 years. After that window, however, the breast tissue tends to remain and harden, leaving surgery (either liposuction, gland excision, skin sculpture, reduction mammoplasty, or a combination of these surgical techniques) the only treatment option.

Many American insurance companies deny coverage for surgery for gynecomastia treatment on the grounds that it is a cosmetic procedure.

Radiation therapy is sometimes used to prevent gynecomastia in patients with prostate cancer prior to estrogen therapy. Compression garments can camouflage chest deformity and stabilize bouncing tissue bringing emotional relief to some. There are also those who choose to live with the condition.



Possible treatment for Gyno using Letro:

SERM - Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.

Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI - Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI's prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.

Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and it's suggested that you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI.

Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. It's been said that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don't know if I buy into this for the reason that some have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe, it's recommended to start it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently.

Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno, let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

How do I know if I have gyno?
If you have developed gyno you will have a lump behind your nipple. It will be fairly hard, and it will be tender to touch.

Running letro to reverse gyno:
I am going to go over the three different scenarios which people could fit into. Remember regardless of what scenario you are in it is important that you begin taking the letro ASAP.

1. Already using an anti-e aside from letro.
2. Already using letro @ a dose of .25mg or .50mg ED.
3. Not running any estrogen protection.

1.
Day 1: .25mg Letro + anti-e*
Day 2: .50mg Letro
Day 3: 1.0mg Letro
Day 4: 1.5mg Letro
Day 5: 2.0mg Letro
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro **

2.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

3.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro **

*Regardless of the anti-e you are using it is important to still use it for the first day you begin letro as the letro will not have taken any effect and you by no means want your body to be without any protection when gyno is already prevalent.

** You will remain at this dose until gyno symptoms subside. Once you believe your gyno is gone it is important to stay at this dose for another 4-7 days to ensure all traces are gone. It's recommended that people with a bf% over 15 stay on for a week as it may be harder to judge completely whether the lump is completely gone.

Once this period is over it will be important to taper letro down slowly rather than coming off it completely. Regardless of which manner you tapered up your dose you will all taper down in the same fashion.

Day 1: 2.0mg
Day 2: 1.5mg
Day 3: 1.0mg
Day 4: .50mg***
Day 5: .25mg
***You can remain at this dose or go down further to .125mg. It is really up to you at this point. They are both very common maintenance doses as an anti-e while on cycle. Personally, most have stayed with .25mg and never had a problem.

Letro and the estrogen rebound:
With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM.

So, it's suggested that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.

This now leads us into the question of reversing gyno while not on cycle. There are a few things to remember here. You have already waited longer than you should have, and your sex drive will be shot.

You can use tribulus or another natural test booster to help you in this scenario but I can't guarantee the effectiveness. Just follow gyno reversal protocols 2 or 3. When coming off again you must taper and begin using nolvadex to prevent any rebound effect that may occur.

How much nolvadex should you use if you are not going into PCT and running this off cycle? I suggest starting at 20mg ED for a week and then lowering it to 10mg for another week and then coming off completely.






Other Links:

http://www.gynecomastia.org/
http://www.plasticsurgery.org/...FTOKEN=44259626
http://www.gynecomastia.com/




Credits due to C-Bino, Wikipedia, Gynecomastia.org, WebMD, eMedicine.com, Familydoctor.com, and Gynecomastia.com ]]> Tue, 21 May 2013 09:04:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=2356081 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=4176951
I will try and add more threads to this list, there are so many good ones I can't possibly claim this is comprehensive.

Cycle Plans/Logs

- rrjc's "Test/Tren/Dbol/G6":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/.../testtrendbolg6

- Cortes' "Test/Tren/Dbol run":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...esttrendbol_run

- jMill2's 2on2off plan:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ek_cycle_layout

- tw2battl2's summer cycle:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...st_proptrenmast

- Kayveeay's log:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._ovt_summer_log

- BBB's "My Current State of the Art":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...tate_of_the_art

(Note that this will be hopelessly outdated compared to what BBB would do now, but it's interesting anyway.)

Steroids

- Bill Roberts debunking the Tren progestin myth:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ptor_activation

- BBB on nutrient repartitioning properties of Tren:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ng_vs_body_temp

Peptides

- Cortes' "BBB's HGH Protocol":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...s_hgh_protocol_

- Cortes' "The HGH Experiment":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...hgh_experiement

- BBB on insulin pre-workout:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...before_training

- Dirty Gerdy's GHRP6 log:
http://velocity.T-Nation.com/...gerdy_ghrp6_run

- Nidal's "Mesomorphic Condition":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._hgh_experiment

(This has numerous tidbits and summaries of old threads that people probably won't read through.)

- Bill Roberts and DLB on GHRP-6 rehab dosing:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/...p6_rehab_dosing

- BBB/DRG's PGF2a log
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...herhood_of_pain

Ancillaries

- Westclock's Pramipexole experiences:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ole_experiences

- BBB and KSMan on Selegiline/Deprynyl:
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/...egilinedeprenyl

- tmhlbrk's Cabergoline thread:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...trencabergoline

Homebrew

- Bill Roberts on removing estradriol benzoate from Synovex:
http://velocity.T-Nation.com/...n_to_tren_cycle

- Bill Roberts on Finaplix conversion:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/...nt_fina_formula

- Discussion of BA/BB ratios and filtering:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._ratio_for_babb

- Discussion on how to make painless gear:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...mebrew_painless

General

- Bill Roberts on frontloading:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ontloading_test

- Morepain on site injections:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ion_enhancement

- Bill Roberts on recovery time and tapering:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._between_cycles

- Morepain, Bill, and BBB on backloading monojects:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._oilbased_shots

- Prisoner's "Post Your Pre-AAS Physique":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...as_physique_pic

- DOHCrazy and others on dealing with acne:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/..._i_did_about_it

- Discussion on the feeling of being "on":
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...ing_of_being_on

- The VG site:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/...uteal_injection ]]> Wed, 20 Mar 2013 03:01:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=4176951 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692433
My natural test levels are low 105-120 last time I had it tested so I use to be ok with every now and then. ]]> Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:48:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692433 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693808
I'm particularly curious as to whether one way or the other has more of an impact on natural leutinizing hormone production. ]]> Wed, 19 Jun 2013 01:02:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693808 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693536
1120 test
840 tren e
700 EQ


any thoughts or suggestions on this?

right now my sex drive is so high its bothersome. ]]> Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:54:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693536 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692181 Lifting Hard for past 3 years
Age - 24
Height- 186cm,
BF- 10-12%
Weight- 170 pounds

I have almost completed my 1st cycle which was as follows-

Test Prop- 100mg EOD x 8 weeks

Masteron- 100mg EOD x 8 weeks

Anavar- 20mg ED x 1 weeks
40mg ED x 2-6 weeks
60mg ED x 6-8 weeks

I am on my 8th week. My current weight is 188Pounds. i.e. increase of 18 pounds.
I have my Fashion portfolio shoot after a month. So trying hard for abs. Eating Clean. 3 days cardio in a week. 6 days weightlifting.
I dont have fat on my abdomen area but abs arent clearly visible either. I am doing abs twice a week.
So i have decided to add this at the end of my current cycle-

Clen - 25 mcg ED x 9th week
50 mcg ED x 10th week
50 mcg ED x 11th week

Winstrol- 50 mg EOD x 9-11 weeks

Now my Q is-

1) Should i continue anavar with clen and winstrol? I dont have test prop. So hesitating to go with Anavar only.
2) Should i start my PCT after the 8th week or after the 11th week?
3) Should i use Clen for continuous 3 weeks? or 1 week on and 1 week off?

]]> Wed, 19 Jun 2013 00:03:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692181 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5677373
I am 20 years old, and a former All American wrestler. I felt that I have always looked really good with a shirt on but when I take it off my muscle isn't hard, and I don't look good. The lower half of my body has never looked good even when I was down below 10% body fat during midseason. I would guess that I have a little less than 15 % body fat now.

My goal is to looked ripped, have a six pack of abs, and gain some muscle and strength. I want the results to look almost unnoticable while wearing a shirt, but noticable without one.

Is this a good supplement/steroid to take for my goal and what side effects should I expect? ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:48:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5677373 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5676106 stats: I'm 5'11 at 190 pounds and been lifting for about 3 years

my cycle.
Weeks 1-12 test e at 500mg
Tren Ace .75mg eod (I have heard different opinions when to start the tren advice here is appreciated)

Diet
For my diet I plan on lots of protein from chicken,turkey,90beef and fish. also lots of greens like asparagus peas and broccoli.

E Blocker
lixuidex .5mg eod

PCT
I need some help here I'm not sure what to choose I hear lots of debates between novla and clomid I would like to hear some opinions from the vets.

Again thanks in advance.
]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:32:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5676106 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691922
After having a cat-scan they determined I had appendicitis and decided to operate. I'm scheduled to be released tomorrow with 2 to 3 weeks rest from the gym. My dilemma is do I stop my cycle before it even really got started or to continue with it and return to the gym in 2 to 3 weeks all pumped an ready to go. Or maybe a pause in the cycle? I'm not sure what my best corse of action is here. ( I'm 4 pins in, 250x2 a week) ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 21:26:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691922 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693647
250 mg Test E (pinned 2x week, weeks 1-12)
200 mg EQ (pinned 2x week, weeks 1-12)
40 mg Dbol (per day weeks 1-4)
Adex (0.25 EOD weeks 1-12)
HCG (500iu 1x week, weeks 2-11)
PCT - Novadex (40/40/40/20)

So, would it be worth adding in the EQ, or just sticking with the test as it's only my second cycle? (If yes, should it be front loaded btw?)

Stats
Age: 24
Height: 5'10
Weight: 215 pounds
Bodyfat %: 12-15
Years training: 8
Goal: Get Hyooge

Thanks a lot guys

]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:28:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693647 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693876 I have been working out since I was 20 and started out weighing 120 lbs
I have done a couple oral only cycles in the past (which were a mistake I know) and decided to finally step up and do a real cycle

The reason I am posting this is because I do not have anyone in person to ask about my cycle and regardless of looking up online the proper thing to do I still feel nervous about it.

The plans are
Week 1 - 30mg Dbol
Week 2 - 40mg Dbol
Week 3 - 50mg Dbol
Week 4 - 50mg Dbol
Week 5-15 - 500mg Test-E
Week 16-18 - Nolva 40mg
Week 18-20 - Nolva 20mg

Does this sound right regarding the cycle?
I have my diet and routine down, any help is greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:57:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693876 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686953
The great thing is this only cost me $8.00 because I use my insurance. My question is can I put on any size and gain strength off of this regime? If I do multiple shots a week I'll run out before my prescription can be filled again so I'd be screwed from that end. I have another script for Androl gel 1.62% from another doctor. Can I do one shot a week and just use Androl everyday to up the levels?

Any info or direction would be great. ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:10:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686953 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693418 i no i shouldnt of did them bye them self i want to reserch how to do a proper cycle before doing them

all i want to no is can i just skip the nova as i only took 30 mg for a week


im 96kg and 6ft ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:48:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693418 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690230
my cycle
1-10 trenbolone Enathate (300-400mg)
1-6weeks 250mg sustanon
6-12weeks 500mg sustanon
1-4weeks 20mg superdrol clone(methastadrol)i have and dbol (alphabol 150caps)on hand but decide not t use coz i want to have in check my estrogens
1-15weeks 12,5 mg aromasin
1-11weeks 0,25-0,5mg dostinex e4d
12-15week 2500iu hcg e4d
15 week 150iu hmg/merional
one day before start serms 100iu GnRh/triptorelin
serms
nolva 40 20 20 20 10 10
clomid 100 75 50 50

***maybe i dnt know yet thinking end my cycle with an oral like epistane/havoc for 4 weeks 40-50mg



]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:08:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690230 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693745
If the usable shelf life is four months, it's not an issue. The pills are my first choice but they seem hard to obtain. Would Pramipexole be a better choice and provide the benefits? I hear the sides can be rough with Prami.
]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 17:02:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5693745 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5682867
Cycle:
Test prop 200mg per week for 5 weeks
pct HCG 5000iu 3 days after last shot

I already started the cycle today , but can not sleep because I saw some topics that it can ruin my sex life forever.... please help! should I stop the cycle and run pct?

I know i'm stupid but there should be some way to fix it. ]]> Tue, 18 Jun 2013 05:46:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5682867 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686855 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:46:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686855 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5664338
My diet is spot on and I've always eaten clean throughout my entire life, I might have a large pizza for a cheat meal maybe once every 2 months but other than that my diets is super clean, I watch my macros religiously and currently maintain a 40/40/20 calorie ratio from my food sources! I've recently had blood work done and my doctor said he's very pleased at how well i take care of myself, My blood pressure is where its suppose to be and i'm overall extremely healthy!

The cycle i was considering was Testosterone Enanthate 250Mg per week, 2 shots of 125mg each on Monday morning and Thursday night for 12 weeks, Stacked with 50mg Anavar ED. PCT therapy will be clomid for 4 weeks! Also have some Nolvadex on hand to combat any side effects from the Test e. Any suggestions from the more experience guys is more than appreciated!

Thanks Mike ]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:48:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5664338 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692685
50mg Test Prop
50mg Tren Ace
.50mg Arimidex ED

Lift hard, lift heavy. Eat healthy and get ripped up.

2 weeks after last injection I will begin PCT with Nolva/Clomid

Thanks,
Josh

Also any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. ]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 21:11:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692685 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5689885
Lifting and eating properly for the past 3 years.

Currentl stats ( strength has dipped a bit due to being leanest I have ever been)
6'3
223lbs
11% bf
Squat 305x3
Bench 235x3
Deadlift 395x3

I saw posted in another thread that 250mg sustanon a wk is too low t see any notable Gains,

Does this hold true if someone were to add 200mg/wk primo enth along with with 250mg sust?
]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:35:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5689885 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690469

Hey guys, I'd be interested in the opinion of the vets around here. Not judging the guy, he (sounds like) knows what he's doing and it obviously worked, but was putting this vid online a good idea? I mean steroids are illegal, right?

Also, I've always heard that the pros are taking ''a ton of stuff'' but I've never been able to ball park it. Now after watching this vid (yes I watched the whole thing), I can but I almost can't believe it.... ]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:18:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690469 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691109 From what I understand it's chemical composition is similar to dianabol but it's modified and less androgenic.
I also have read that turinabol was the secret weapon the East Germans used to beat us in the Olympics so no doubt it's effective.

Why isn't this steroid more popular though I wonder? Is it really expensive and commonly faked? ]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 15:01:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691109 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687928 Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:46:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687928 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5561881
I'm finally able to work out every day, where before HRT I could only do 3 days a week b/c of recovery.

I'm now looking to blast and cruise. I want to get big(ger). I started lifting olympic about 2 years ago and while I've changed my body comp substantially I'm a hard gainer in the lean muscle department.

I would like the advice of those familiar with b&c. I'm on TRT for life, I figure I'd maximize my gain abilities as best possible. I've been reading everything I can get my hands with the search engine, but am interested in hearing about cycles other folks in my age range and on HRT have done for B&C. Looks like many folks are using several different types of T for cycles.

Could I go to 1mg/week of T-Cyp? 12 weeks for my first cycle? Or would I see better results with a mix of stuff? Is this a stupid idea? Your feedback and knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

My humble apologies if I've simply missed a good thread on the subject, I've been reading for a while now. ]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:54:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5561881 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692140
I signed up for a lot of these forums but most of them instead making fun , they wont and they cant share with you anything . i hope i can find some good people in here .

ok guys i have a lot of stuffs in my mind going on for my 3rd cycle but i really dont knw which one is better and safest one . i had dbol and test e in my last cycle and i wanna just cut as much as possible and gain some lean weight ,,,

people recommend different cycle so i will post in here and u guys tell me or just let me know a good cycle which considering to my situation i can choose :


option 1

1-16 test e @ 300mg
1-16 eq @ 600mg
12-19 var @ 80 mg ed
17-19 test p 100mg eod


Option 2

Weeks 1-14 500mg of test en
weeks 1-14 400-600mg of EQ
weeks 12-17 100mg masteron eod

option 3

Just test p and Anvar


option 4

Test prop 50mg
Mast prop 50mg
Tren A 50mg
]]> Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:29:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5692140 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691627
recently started working out and pursued getting tablets from coworker again,
this time they are pink pentagons with small speckled color, on one side a score, the other side a small logo of a serpent?

he told me they were turanibol 5mg,

but after taking several at a time (sublingual) 2x a day for 2 days i feel no difference physically..

previously the effect was immediate.. raised blood pressure, pumped feeling after exercise and working out...it was almost addicting..

now.. so far i don't feel anything..
he claims to take several a day himself (besides his other supplements)

i dont feel any pump or raise in blood pressure from these...

Should i feel this change, that i did before?
I have tried looking at tablet descriptions online and seen various results, some claim these pills are dianabol, or turanabol..or fake

the pills taste as i remember, not great at all...
i just dont feel physically different,

any help appreciated.
thanks a lot.
]]> Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:06:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5691627 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=3944618 The ventrogluteal was so easy and painless, not to mention the freedom I feel now that I can inject WHENEVER I want. I don't think I was ever really scared of a self injection, but was under the dilution that it would be easier and less painful to have someone else do it for me.
....gotta give a shout out to Saps, who introduced me to this injection ]]> Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:15:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=3944618 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5674172 1-3 sdrol 20mg
3-9 NPP 300mg
9-11 sdrol 10mg as backload
1-12 adex 0.25 eod

12-15 2500u hcg e4d
12-15 10mg nolva
15-19 nolva 40/20/20/20
14-18 clomid 50/50/50/50
what do you think ]]> Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:20:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5674172 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690289
Looking to run a second cycle, how's this look? Sounds like lots of people have had success with low test/high tren. Looking for a little bit of a recomp. First cycle was test e, 500...pretty standard. Went from 170->195, now at 190. Bf maybe 15% @ 5'10.

200 test e/wk
600 tren ace/wk

Maybe throw in some drol for a few weeks at the end if I'm responding well.

8 weeks

Standard pct nolva
40/40/20/20

Do I need an AI with a TRT dosage of test? Would pinning E.O.D be ok for the tren? Should I run caber, just have it on hand, don't worry about it?

What are people's next favorite site besides glutes? ]]> Sun, 16 Jun 2013 11:17:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690289 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690586 I did a cycle 2 years ago consisting of Tren ace, test prop and t3. This was the worst decision I have made, however I cannot change the past and I just want to fix my problem. I have libido problems.

I did some blood work in March 2013 and here are the results.
Free Test : 62.6 pmol/L

March 13, 2013 results
RTH: 2.07 uIU/mL
AND: 2.75 ng/mL
TES: 569 ng/dl

March 18, 2013 results
PRG: 0.801 nmoI/L
LH: 4.14 mIU/mL
FSH: 7.18 mIU/mL
E2: 105 pmoI/L

March 5 2013 results
LH: 3.46 mIU/L
FSH: 3.61 mIU/L
PRL: <10.6 mIU/L
E2: <73.4 pmoI/L

If anyone can help me there would be no way of expressing how grateful I would be.

All the best and thank you.
]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:09:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690586 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5681468
6',7"

175lbs

IBS/Lactose

CURRENT WEIGHT GOAL 200LBS


Been working out on/off for the past year learning my body & exercises.

My weight fluctuates 170-175lbs but can't gain weight because I have a super fast metabolism.

I eat a decent amount, usually spend like $500/mo on food.

Not trying to be lazy but am stuck & ain't going anywhere.

Buddy of mine sold me some stuff, supposed to be good stuff, read alot of reviews & don't see any problems but also don't know much about it.

Any comments or have any suggestions on stuff to try? ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:42:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5681468 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686308
Age 29
Height 6'2
Weight 207

My cycle is as follows

Week 1-10 500 mg sustanon pinned EOD
Week 1-10 .5 mg adex EOD
Week 12 - 16 nolva 40/40/20/20
Nolva on hand for any E issues while on

Diet consist of 3800-4500 cals/day 85-90 G fat/day 350 G protein/day

I've been on for 6 weeks and very excited with the results so far. I have gained 22 lbs and am lifting heavier than ever before. Now my question is I planned on running 10 weeks but I have more than enough adex and nolva to go longer.

I wanted to know if you think I'd be crazy to bump my cycle length up to 14 or 15 weeks to maximize my results?. I will need to buy one more vial of sus but that's not a problem. Keep in mind it is my first cycle am I stretching it to far or would I be fine running it this long. Thanks in advance for all input I appreciate it. ]]> Sun, 16 Jun 2013 03:10:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5686308 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690964
First run: tren ace and dbol
Front load tren @ 150mg day one
Days 2-12: 75 mg tren Ed
Days 1-14:dbol 40 mg Ed

2 weeks off with clomid and natty t boosters

Second run: test prop and Superdrol
Days 1-10: test prop @200mg Ed
Days 1-14: Superdrol@30mg Ed

2 weeks off with clomid and natty t boosters

Third run: tren ace and dbol
Same as first run.

Take at least 6 weeks off to recover.

So I need opinions. I'm planning on running this without any ancillaries because I figure at 2 weeks at a time no sides will have time to show. However, I do have nolva,clomid, and an ai on hand. No letro or caber available to me at this point in time. Main reason I'm trying out these short cycles is for one I want to minimize shutdown, and two I am able to come on a lot more frequently. I know gains aren't going to be as explosive, just looking to gain gradually and just see if short cycles are what I need.

Any advise would be appreciated. ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:40:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690964 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687729
((At the moment im running 600TestE, 400NPP))

W1-8 Test E 750mg/w
W1-8 Tren A 20mg/ED subq (140mg/w) (This will be my first run at tren, and I just want to experiment a bit, doing only 20mg per day based on some reading done of BBB's experiences)
W1-8 NPP 400 (I know, 2 19-nor's) reason im keeping this in here is because im coming off of my offseason dose and want to keep total MG's even or higher)

TOTAL: 1290mg total/w


W9-16 Test E 250mg/w
W9-16 Primo 500mg/w
W9-16 Masteron 400mg/w
W9-16 Var (not for sure on this, i just happen to have a lot lying around)

TOTAL: 1150 w/o var, probably use var or another oral to bring up the total to 1300ish/w

W15-16 Halo ?? Maybe? Not sure on dosage yet, will likely be conservative with it tho.

Ancillaries + taper PCT are all in order.

Oh yeah my stats:

At this point, 19 weeks out.
5'11, 252 lbs, 12-13%Bf, dreamy green eyes.

Let me know if there are any obvious issues or better recommendations. Cheers!, Also the reason i'm using Test E as opposed to prop, is because I can't get human grade prop. ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 19:06:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687729 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5689111
I decided to stop the cycle 8 weeks in because of an infection, gear got dirty, almost had to remove part of ass.

I have Anavar on hand and Nolva, I know PCT should start two weeks after your last shot. Can I start Var right now, run it for 4 weeks lower dose 20-30mg a day, these two weeks and two weeks into pct. I know its a little suppressive but I also have HCG.

do you think it would work??

stats: 5'9 200 lbs 10% bf ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 16:42:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5689111 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687330
I am looking to show case myself to market my gym at an event next year at the beginning of summer and have the chance to dedicate all my time from now till then on training and getting ready to win the competition. Im looking for a cycle that will increase my muscle growth and strength quickly but at the same time keep me lean like i am now and able to still do high amounts of cardio. My diet will be extremely clean and I have prepped to increase my caloric intake from 4500 to 6000-6500 per day. I am new to steroids but i have done a few orals before and i really understand my body. I feel its that time to take it to the next level.

What I found was a 14 week cycle that consist of:
Weeks 1-10:
*500mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 11:
*300mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every other day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 12:
*200mg testosterone per week
*1 quarter tablet of Fincar per day (1.25mg)
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every other day (0.25mg)
*1 tablet of clomid every day (50mg)
*320mg of standardized Saw Palmetto Extract per day

Week 13:
*1.25mg of finasteride per day
*.25mg of Arimidex every other day
*100mg of clomid every day

Week 14:
*1 quarter tablet of Arimidex every 3rd day (0.25mg)
*50mg of clomid every day
Just wondering about some good brands so I can try and find some around here. Any help would be greatly appreciated and I will continue to do my research anyway. Thanks all. ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 14:25:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5687330 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5688989 6'
210lbs
Training since High School.
my routine and diet are perfect.

I have 2 10mL bottles of sust 250
I have 25mg oral Winstrol pills
I have Nolvadex
I have NO AI
I have NO HCG

MY CYCLE:
500mg/week for 8 weeks stacked with Winstrol Oral for 6 weeks

Week 1: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday
Week 2: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday
Week 3: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 4: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 5: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 6: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 7: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 8: inject 250mg Monday / inject 250mg Wednesday / Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 9: no substances
Week 10: no substances
Week 11: no substances
Week 12: Nolvadex 40mg/Every Day
Week 13: Nolvadex 40mg/Every Day
Week 14: Nolvadex 20mg/Every Day
Week 15: Nolvadex 20mg/Every Day



I want to use 250iu of HCG every 4 days starting Tuesday of week 3 and going thru the end of week 8 but I have no idea how to get REAL HCG. Im really concerned about getting my test and male function back fully after cycle.

Should I add clomid to my PCT and take it with the nolva?
clomid: 150/100/50/50


I've already pinned week 1 Monday and Thursday. At first, from what I read, I was going to run the cycle without taking Arimidex DURRING the cycle (.5mg every day) but being on cycle now, i want to make the cycle the best it can possibly be and so I continue reading. Day and night. The more I read, the topic is still 50/50 on these three things and I CAN NOT find a black and white answer. Some say donâ??t use it some say use it.

SO...TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT...

1.) SHOULD YOU OR SHOULD YOU NOT TAKE ARIMIDEX STARTING ON DAY 1? .5mg EVERYDAY WHILE ON CYCLE? And of course take 20mg of nolva every day if itchy nips/soreness comes up, I know.
(use arimidex until 4 days after last hcg inject?)

AND...

2.) DO I REALLY NEED HCG ON CYCLE OR AFTER CYCLE OR WILL A SIMPLE NOLVA PCT SUFFICE?
(again.. really concerned about my boys and I have googled everywhere trying to find it)

AND...

3.) SOME SAY NOLVA IS CRAP AND clomid IS BETTER. SOME SAY THE OPPOSITE.
Here is a link where they bash nolvadex pretty hard as a PCT..

steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroid-forum/605974-nolvadex-vs-clomid.html

(basically which one will help me get wood after the cycle.)

LETS SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL HERE GUYS.

also if some of you experts could critique my cycle and PCT. I know sust should be EOD and at least 10 weeks but im not doing that. im doing 8 weeks, M/W. Also any experience youâ??ve had with winny would be appreciated too. Im not sure how winny will effect what I have to do for PCT because im basing my PCT on the long half lives in the sust 250. Thanks a lot everyone. And donâ??t flame me because Iâ??ve clearly spent a lot of time working on this program. Im not seeking acceptance from the steroid gods to run this, just advice.
]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 02:38:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5688989 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690283 So after running some PH's and responding well I decided to take the jump, Thursday I pinned for my first time.

Have been on a 5 week oral cycle of epi/tren/msten which I will extend for 3 more weeks while the test takes hold. Plan is to pin 350mg E4D for 15 weeks.
Always open to learning from the more experienced. ]]> Sat, 15 Jun 2013 02:28:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5690283 http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5688444
Oh, and the shakes...oh Lord the shakes. I didnt feel jittery but my hands trembled pretty badly. The increased body temperature didn't bother me, even though it is about 113 degrees in the daytime here in Phoenix.

I'm fine at 60mcg/day. I have a bunch of this stuff left, enough to run probably 10 more 2-weekers. I'd rather not toss it but it was cheap, so...

I get no negative side effects at all from the old EC 24/200. Would that be more effective than doing the Clen at 60mcg? Maybe do them together? Would the Clen even be worthwhile at that low dose?

I know this is going to be subjective and everyone reacts differently, so I'm just looking for some personal opinions from you fine gents.

Thanks
]]> Fri, 14 Jun 2013 16:38:00 GMT http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=5688444