Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
Here is mine. A-B split idea with MRT and EDT. Two efficient systems that use similar methods...but just different enough to make it interesting. The focus here is on upper body hypertrophy and lower body strength. I am "greasing the groove" with daily calf work though.
For those unfamiliar with the A-B split, it's simple:
Devise two workouts that are significantly different from one another.
Determine your desired workout frequency.
Alternate the workouts.
I do this:
Week 1 Monday A, Tuesday off, Wednesday B, thursday off, friday A, Sat&Sun off
Week 2 B-off-A-off-B-off-off
Week 3 A-off-B-off-A-off-off
etc
Workout B: MRT-H 60s rest
A1. Overhead squat (Snatch from ground x 1 per set) (15-25)
A2. JM Press (25)
A3. Close-grip supinated barbell row (25)
Focus is on "arm strength." The JM press is a nice exercise, kind of a hybrid between a skullcrusher and a CG BP. I really feel like it will increase my triceps strength. High pulls and overhead squats are nice exercises that won't tap my recovery too much since they don't require much loading, but will more than maintain strength in my lower body. As a bonus, the snatches and the high pull will hit my traps for some good growth.
Join date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1463
Right now I'm doing this, with a rest day in between, so M W F Su T Tr Sat, repeat.
Cleans
Squats
Bench
DB Row
Deadlift
Pull ups
Incline Bench
Lunges
Snatches
Front squats
Push/Mil press
BB Row
Reps change depending on how I feel that day, want to move heavy weight, go for a pump, do some light work, whatever. Usually heavy (5ish reps) though. I always try to get one more rep in each exercise with my working weight than I did last time.
Then I follow the main workout some accessory work which is either a weak point I felt during the major exercises, or areas I don't want to neglect. So ab work, biceps, calves, whatever.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
Pretty nice. Looks a lot like what I did for a recent bout of MRT.
I am a little OCD so I tend to always match a vertical push with pull, same with horizontal. So my military press would be with pullups, and incline bench with the bb row...Otherwise I'd feel weird for some reason. I know the volume is the same but I think supersetting just works better for me if it's as close to antagonistic as possible.
Also, kudos for doing two tough lower body exercises per session, although your traps will definitely be growing from the snatches, cleans, and deads. I've been pretty lazy lately and just doing one per session.
Deadlift
DB incline press
Seated row
Thruster
Reverse curl
Tricep press down
This is the basis of the workout. This is part of a five month cycle. I'm going to be starting week 2 of Phase 2. Each phase is four weeks in duration. Phase 1 was a 6 rep range cycle. Phase 2 is 8 reps and so forth up to 15 reps in Phase 5. To the larger exercises I'll add supplimental work depending on the week. Using the bench as an example, on the last set I'll Tri-set with flys and cable cross-overs.
The typical general warm up lasts about 10 minutes using body weight full squats, Hindu push-ups and Karate Kata performed with dynamic tension. The specific warm up depends on the exercise.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
TRAJJ, looks like a good program. Do the overhead lunges seem to work for ya? I've never really thought it would be very good, so I have abstained. Overhead squat though, wooo boy!
I like how you tend to include at least one exercise per TBT session that challenges upper and lower simultaneously (that goes for both you guys actually). OH lunge, thruster, snatch, clean, etc...
Try this hybrid if you like, I think it's really nice for total body development. I used 55 lb dumbbells...
Perform one high pull from hang
Immediately perform an explosive jump squat from rock bottom
That's one rep. Hits the calves like crazy, as well as traps and grip.
Another exercise to check out, that I've wanted to include for a while now, is the Waterbury Walk. It's a hybrid farmer's walk and deadlift. Deadlift from a rack at knee height, then take two steps back. Put the weight down under control, then deadlift it and step forward, replacing it on the rack. That's one rep.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
Also, if you like to warm up unconventionally, try squatting behind the neck presses. Squat as deep as possible, both feet flat, with a bar behind your neck...then press it straight up for reps. Just use an empty bar. It's a mobility exercise. Light OH squats work well too...for getting the blood flowing, "the bear" works nicely.
Join date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 160
conwict wrote:
TRAJJ, looks like a good program. Do the overhead lunges seem to work for ya? I've never really thought it would be very good, so I have abstained.
The way I do the OH lunge is to hold a plate down in front of my thighs. As I begin the lunge I simultaneously raise the plate to overhead keeping the elbows just slightly bent. This gets some work in on the anterior deltoid as well as the unilateral work on the legs.
I 'feel' this the next day as much as I do the front squats, though in a bit different area. I like it because its a 'walk and chew gum' exercise. If I'm really feeling froggy I'll go out to the sidewalk and 'OH lunge' up and down the street. That gives you a good idea where your endurance level is at as well.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
Never heard of a walk and chew gum exercise but I like that exercise that you described.
Actually it's interesting because Waterbury, Robertson, and Hartman all seem to think the best way to do external rotations is to lunge with the opposite side...you may well be onto a good thing.
Join date: Sep 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 484
Currently..
Mon-
Sumo deadlift
[reps] or [heavy, reps of cable pull thru]
Weighted dips (5x5)
Rows (6x4, 8x3)
Lat pull down (10-15 x 2-3)
Wed-
Power Clean and Push Press (heavy)
Sumo Deadlift High Pull (heavy)--thinking of changing to rack pulls
Weighted chins (5x5)
DB Incline Fly's (8x3, 10x3)
Ab work
Im doing CW's TBT, im on week 6 and the stats look like this:
Tues (tonight)
Decline DB Press 2 x 18
DB Row 2 x 18
Seated DB Shoulder Press 2 x 18
Squat 2 x 18
Side raise 2 x 18
Hammer Curl 2 x 18
Thursday will be:
Incline BB Bench 2 x 12
BB Row 2 x 12
Seated DB Shoulder Press 2 x 12
Squat 2 x 12
Dips 2 x 12
Leg Ext 2 x 12
Saturday
Flat BB Bench 2 x 8
Pullups 2 x 8
Military Press 2 x 8
Deadlift 2 x 8
Side Raises 2 x 8
Calf Raises
4 compound and 2 single joint. Next week goes to 3 sets of each. The first 4 weeks was built around a 5, 8, 15 rep range. Its a great routine, prob the best results wise ive used.
All (esp. conwict based on his knowledge of CW's total body programs),
How would you compare 25 Method and TBT? I have used TBT and love it... the 25 Methody for Hypertrophy laid out in Chad's original article is similar to TBT (billed as "harbinger hypertrophy") but has fewer movements.
The differences I see are that you get rep ranges with both (prescribed in TBT but variable in 25 b/c it just depends on how many sets/reps it takes you) and have an opportunity for isos at the end of both. TBT has 1 extra movement per workout and varying rest periods.
Which is superior? I know the "real" answer is that both may have their place, etc., but both are full body programs by CW targeted at 3-day per week workouts for hypertrophy. I know the beauty of 25 is that it's simple, but TBT ain't rocket science and can basically be memorized in 5 minutes. All things being equal, if you could only pick 1 which would you pick and why?
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
trextacy, thanks but I really just know what works for me!
IMO 25 gives you a better blend of strength/size, which should result in more long-term size and sustainable size...you will get wicked strong off it with proper exercise selection for you.
TBT is much more strength-endurance for the most part, especially the original 8-week program. I know this is what you expected, but do whichever is most different from what you've been doing. If you're really neurally activated from a strength-focused program (WS4SB, SFM by CW, 8x3...) it will really blow you up.
Same goes for 25 method, if you need the neural activation there is no better program for strength and size.
In my experience, as far as bang for your buck, MRT or the 25 method will be more time-efficient and probably get you better results considering that you get more mileage from each rep.
25 or MRT followed by TBT would be a great progression. Then you could do some HFT, then back to 25 or MRT...I like to follow one of CW's strength-size programs with something more focused on size, like HFT.
I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea about me, I am in pretty good shape but I'm no expert. I started off about 6'1 150lb 2.5 years ago, bumped up to 195 in about a year, then in the next year got up to 210...with a little bit much waist line...lost down to 185 and lost a bit much size...now I am back up to 205 and stronger and more muscular than ever. I have abs kinda.
So I'm not the most developed or advanced trainee, but I have tried a lot of stuff and know what works for me. That's what I talk about. I'm in this long term, and my goal is a ripped 210-215...but I have turned into the "autotellic" trainee that Staley talks about - the reward is not only the result, but also the process.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
I usually tend to go with a simpler or more refined program. If you can get what you could do with 6 exercises done with 3, why do 6? That's what I love about MRT. If you can go with full intensity on every rep, it's much more effective to do less. Also, nothing is at its best until it is as simple and refined as possible. It took me a long time to get there, and it's really true (for me).
I am doing (fast) car pushing on the third day of the week instead of OH squats or high pulls. I did it day before yesterday and jeez, 2x40 yards really killed my legs. Didn't expect it to be so focused on my quads. Any other car pushers?
Join date: Jul 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 439
I'm getting myself back into the swing of things. It is a bittersweet point, I know I am not where I should be, but on the plus side, gains come so fast.
My goals are a little different than usual. For the time being, I have given up on strongman, and instead I need to work on general conditioning, fat loss, and rehabbing injuries. I'd like to bring strength up as well, but this is not on the top of the list.
Gym work is three times a week. In seperate sessions I run three times weekly and try to get 2-3 gpp sessions in.
GPP usually consists of sleds, kettlebells, hammers, sandbags- lowered weight with all, minimal rest periods. I just got turned on to Rosstraining, and his ideas build on what I have been doing.
Gym work looks like this, every other day-
(1)
squat or front squat 4x4-6
(a)overhead press 4x4-6
(b)overhead pull 4x4-6
various complex x2-3 sets
(2)
Deadlift (standard or sumo) 4x4-6
(a)db bench (flat or incline) 4x4-6
(b)row (dumbell or cable) 4x4-6
various complex x2-3 sets
It's a quick workout, very basic, and in itself it might not be enough. But, it doesn't burn me out and will leave me energy to spare for my GPP workouts.
I do full-body 2 times a week.
Monday is:
Leg press 3x5
Bench press2x5
Pull-ups3x5
OHBP2x5
Onearm dunbell rows2x5
Friday:
Leg press3x5
Chins 3x5
Incline dunbell bench press 2x5
Dips 2x5
Back extension 1 x10
This program is not working, I dont get strong and look the same for months.I dont know what to do.I only have time to train 2 times a week.maybe the 25 program is for me.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
bulldogmedic, I like the looks of that. Like you said simple and basic. I think if you push it hard enough though, with every other day, you could definitely say that's enough. I don't think it looks bad at all.
What complexes do you use?
By overhead pull do you mean some kind of vertical pull, or what?
Benreturns, just wait til you take some time off. That's when those TBT gains really come through.
Der Candy, pretty low volume. What's your goal? You pretty new to TBT? I think if it works, great, but that is much lower volume than most programs I've gained on.
jlats, what is a D press? dumbbell press?
Everyone post your fav exercises for use in TBT plans...as mentioned, I like two-in-ones...clean & press, high pull (upper/lower)...snatch/overhead squat.
Thank's for the aswer.My goal is hypertrophy.
I am 5'9.5'' 163 lbs, 12% bf
The poundages I use is:
Leg press:525 lbs
Bench press:184 lbs
Dips:B.W+88 lbs
Chins:B.W+59lbs
Pull-UP:B.W+30 lbs
Onearmdunbell rows:92 lbs
OHBP:100 lbs
Back extension:44 lbs
Incline dunbell bench press:72 lbs
I can only train 2 times a week, for 60 min.
Thank's for any help!!
to respond to the thread, here is what I've been doing:
Day 1:
Back squat
Flat bench
Bent row
BB curls
Dips (triceps focus)
Day 2:
Deadlift
Incline bench
Pull ups
shrugs
calf raises
Day 3:
Front squat
flat bench
chin ups
shoulder press
I basically look at CW and Steve Reeves from a training perspective. They both advocate 3 full body workouts per week and complement one another well.
I'm doing a ketogenic diet, lifting heaving and incorporating some moderate walking (60%-70% heart rate) and the fat is melting off me...I'm getting stronger, not losing muscle and overall feel great. I know there is disagreement over keto diets (this isn't Atikins, btw) but just like lifting programs, nutritional protocols can vary person to person.
The bottom line with the keto approach is, based on my research, very anabolic, effective at burning fat, very satisfying and even healthful. I find it works well with a full-body program (esp. using a bit higher rep ranges on Fridays in anticipation of glorious carb-up).
Join date: Jul 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posts: 439
conwict wrote:
bulldogmedic, I like the looks of that. Like you said simple and basic. I think if you push it hard enough though, with every other day, you could definitely say that's enough. I don't think it looks bad at all.
What complexes do you use?
By overhead pull do you mean some kind of vertical pull, or what?
I use overhead in place of vertical, same thing (I know there are exceptions, but all my vertical is overhead).
I don't have a chosen set of complexes. But, for discussion, today workout was:
Overhead Squatx10
Clean X8
Push Press x8
BO Row x8
RDL or Goodmorning x10
Squat or Front Squat x10
I do like the combo lifts, currently, I save them for complexes/weight conditioning vs strength training.
This last year, I bought up most of the books from the T-Nation store. Waterbury and Cosgrove has really influenced my thinking and training methods. TBT is the way to go for me.
As far as simple and basic, I am learning that less is more. I'm going to butcher a quote and try to paraphrase Bruce Lee. "Before I learned to fight, all I knew was a punch was a punch, a kick a kick. As I learned, I learned about an uppercut, a cross, a jab...Years later, I have come to learn, a punch is a punch, a kick is a kick." I did not do this quote any justice, but I have a point in mind.
More is less. In general, you either push (lower body, upper body horizontal and vertical) or pull (the same). Most everything else is a variation of those. I am not a bodybuilder. There is no big difference for me in the long run if I do flat bench, incline bench, decline bench or pushups. It is all training the same movement and muscles, as I get stronger than one, it helps get stronger with the others. I include a lower body lift, and a upper body push and pull with each workout. That is the big picture, the rest are details. I keep rotating which lifts I fill into the template, vary rep ranges, and that is it. Not a perfect program, but it works for me.
One last note before I end this ramble. The above mentioned frame has been year round. Currently, I am dropping the volume and including complexes. During a mass phase, I'll add volume, and maybe 2-3 sets of isolation work per movement (for example on a deadlift day follow up with a few sets of hamstring curls).Last year I put on @20 lbs by doing this. Ramble over, good thread by the way, thanks.
Join date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posts: 807
bulldogmedic,
I'm with you on the simplicity! Which isn't to say that one shouldn't strive for more knowledge. Quite the opposite.
As an addendum, I should add that as almost anything works fairly well in the long term, my priorities are 1) palatability (how long can I keep it up? Do I enjoy it?) and 2) safety. Efficacy is definitely important, but it would have to be 3).
I don't care how effective something is if I hate doing it, or if it is unsafe. Fortunately I enjoy most types of training, but even if hammering my "chest and bis" one day per week worked great, I'd just find it boring and unchallenging.
Also bulldogmedic, I think it is wise to think in term of long-term cycles. Not just "after this mass phase I will cut," but "each year I will...". That way you really know where you will end up. Caveman (search for a thread on him) espoused a similar philosophy. Dunno where that guy went.
trextacy, I agree with your assessment. I don't know about ketogenic, but low carb diets work well for me. I'm actually pretty versatile...I think (hopefully) now I'm body smart enough to know when I can have em. If I have had a clean, carb-timed, hard-working week in the gym, I feel comfortable having a mega carb day. I just go by what I feel, and it's working.
In part I'm gonna have to cite good programming choices for my success with diet. In my case I'd say they're equally important.
cgutcu, those are some sick chin and dip numbers. You may wanna go deeper in dips, and more strict in chins, if possible. If not great job. I'm not really sure what to say. 2x week can work, but is it a gym access issue, or a time issue?
If it's a time issue just go very intensely. Gentilcore has a 2x week routine, and so does Waterbury (it's called 2x4).
If it is a gym access issue, that's very simple. Just add in a third day with bodyweight or oddball exercises:
Car pushing
Pistol squats (or pistol box squats)
King deadlifts (not simple one-leg RDLs, different form, look it up)
High-rep or feet-elevated or ballistic pushups, or maybe even one-arm
Jumps onto a box
Plank
Sprints
Pavel argues you can get as strong as you want with pistol squats and one-arm pushups.
