The T-Vixen Roundtable
Featuring Patricia Smith, Cassandra Forsythe, Eva Moore, Sandy Joyce and Jalaine Ulsh
Moderated by Chris Shugart

After about five minutes of flipping through one of these rags, I was left wondering if there's some conspiracy against females who want to get into great shape. That's how poor the information is in those magazines. It's obvious the babes on the covers don't actually use any of the lame, myth perpetuating, and often coddling articles contained within.

Any female serious about looking good would be better off reading Testosterone. Sure, T-mag is geared towards men, but the rules of physique enhancement aren't that much different between the sexes. In fact, just about any training program or diet in our archives would work great for a woman.

Luckily, the name of our magazine hasn't stopped some females from joining T-Nation, reading the mag and participating on the forum. These women — more appropriately known as Testosterone Vixens — stand as shining examples of why women should hit the weights and eat their steaks.

Looking to bridge the gender gap and give our female readers a voice (and to get five bodacious babes into my office all at once), I decided to put together a roundtable discussion. Let me tell you, the experience was enlightening. In fact, it was exactly like a Playboy Mansion orgy, except that everyone kept their clothes on and nobody had sex. At least not with me.

First, let me introduce the vixens:

Patricia Smith: You may remember Patricia from the "Real People, Real Muscle" piece we did on her back in issue #240. This eclectic fireball has been weight training for nearly twenty years, spending time as a competitive bodybuilder and most recently as a strongman, er, strongwoman, competitor. How buff is she? She's so buff that a comic book artist used her body as the model for a female superhero. Not bad for a lifetime drug-free, 37 year old artist and illustrator!

Eva Moore: This Canadian dynamo grew up playing sports, mostly softball and ringette (which is a game like hockey solely designed to confuse Americans). After she was bitten by the iron bug, Eva competed in fitness competitions and received her ISSA personal trainer certification. She's currently working in the supplement industry and has spent a lot of time studying under Udo Erasmus of Udo's Choice fame. Eva is also training at the University of Calgory's Olympic Oval with aspirations of making the national speed skating team.

Jalaine: "JJ" Ulsh: Jalaine has been lifting for over eleven years and has competed in both amateur bodybuilding and WFF (World Fitness Federation) figure competitions. Last fall, she was asked to represent the US at the World and Universe level.

Cassandra Forsythe: Cass is a 23-year-old scientist and athlete. She earned her

BSc in Nutrition and Food Sciences from the University of Alberta in Edmonton and is currently a MSc Nutrition and Metabolism candidate. Soon she'll begin her PhD studies in Exercise Physiology and Nutritional Metabolism. When she's not getting stacks of degrees, Cassandra works as a sports nutrition consultant who's been described as a "female John Berardi," which is sort of arousing in a creepy kinda way.

I gathered this gaggle of gals together to discuss training and nutrition from a woman's point of view. This should not only be an interesting article for our female readers, but also a great article for men to print out and give to the ladies in their lives — or to that fat Jenny Craig reject at work.

Chris Shugart: Okay, vixens, myth blasting time. What's the biggest myth you hear about women and weights?

Sandy: The biggest myth I hear from women themselves is that lifting weights will make them big. Not true. The biggest myth I hear about women and weights is that they should do high reps, basically for the same reason—because God forbid they build any muscle!

Patricia: I hear "I’ll get bulky" almost every day, even now, in the twenty-first century! Truth is, while I’m carrying more muscle than ever, I'm "smaller" and more streamlined than most untrained women at my height. The first thing people say when they meet me is, "Gawd, you’re small!" But that’s muscle for you — sleek, streamlined, compact, beautiful muscle!

Eva: Of course the old "weights will make you big" statement has had its time. However, I think the general population's knowledge has since increased due to fitness and physique competitors' examples of tight bodies. These days, I think the most common myth I've heard is "I do yoga and this is good enough. I don’t need to do any weight training." While I've been an avid yoga practitioner in the past, I can say that unless you live in a yoga studio, there's no way you can achieve a great body, strength, increased bone density etc., without weight training.

Cassandra: Another myth is that women can't get strong, or even worse, shouldn't train for strength.

Chris: The "I'll get too big" line still seems to be the most common myth we hear when women write to us for advice. The funny thing is, even if she were some type of mutant who really could get "too big" without steroids, it's not like she's going to just wake up one day and be big, you know? That would takes years, even if it were possible. Makes me think that this is often just an excuse used by some women so they won't have to lift weights.

Anyway, let's dispel that myth right now. Cassandra, since you're the scientist-type, why can't women get "too big" with weight training?

Cassandra: Chris, I'd like to rephrase that to sexy scientist-type.

Chris: Thank you, Miss Obvious. Now, why can't women get "too big"?

Cassandra: Physiologically, there are a few reasons why women can’t put on the same muscle size as men. Here are the main ones:

One, everyone is born with a specific number of muscle fibers. These fibers can be classified as either Type I fibers or Type II fibers. Type I fibers are the endurance fibers that generate energy for aerobic exercise and competitive long distance events. Type II fibers are larger dynamic fibers that generate energy for short, high-intensity anaerobic movements. Most people have approximately half Type I fibers and half of Type II.

The distribution of these fibers, however, varies between individuals, gender, and muscle group. Weight training increases the size and strength of both muscle fibers. Size increases take longer to manifest than improvements in strength, which are noticed after a few workouts. For a muscle to grow with weight training, it needs to increase the size of its fibers, most specifically the Type II fibers. Women typically are disadvantaged because they start out with smaller fibers than men, and they have less Type II fibers.

So, as a woman weight trains, it'll take her longer to increase her muscle size, and even then she won’t be able to develop the same tissue growth as a man.

Two, women have less Testosterone than men. Hormonally, women are disadvantaged when it comes to gaining muscle size. Testosterone is the major androgenic hormone responsible for the hypertrophy (growth) of muscle fibers and this is the reason why males have more muscle mass.

Three, women usually have more body fat than men, and fat takes up more space in the body than muscle. As a woman trains and decreases her body fat, while increasing muscle, her body will morph into a leaner, tighter physique. Even though she does gain muscle, the exchange of fat for muscle will make her look smaller.

Chris: Even with all the advances out there when it comes to training knowledge, many women are still under the impression that "men do weights, women do aerobics." So, in short, why should women be pumping iron too?

Patricia: Oh, there’s all the health benefits: stronger bones, increased LBM (lean body mass) that leads to increased metabolism, and improving cholesterol profile and blood pressure. Then there are the strength benefits. With increased strength, a woman can better deal with everyday activities.

Plus, weight training reshapes the body. If you weren’t born with curves, no problem. Add them via weight training! There’s proof of that everywhere. Look at Rachel McLish. Undoubtedly one of the world’s most beautiful women and in her day, as two-time Ms. Olympia, she had a fantastic physique. But she had what's called a "pear shaped" body: narrow shoulders compared to her wider hips. However, through the additional musculature on her shoulders and back, she reshaped her bod and in the process became a Ms. Olympia.

Also, weight training is almost our solution to the "fountain of youth." Again, Rachel Mclish, who’s now in her 40’s, is still the head turner.

Most of all, weight training is empowering. Nothing like a solid physical presence to boost confidence, and there’s nothing sexier than a woman with confidence. Weight training enhances femininity. I feel that by weight training and strongman training, I’m celebrating my femininity. Being feminine doesn't equate to being "weak" or "helpless," but means strength and free will.

Eva: I think a woman should train with weights for the same reason a man does. I think it builds self-confidence. The media and society present physiques that most women on average don't possess. Weightlifting offers a healthy means to achieving such a physique.

Jalaine:: I agree. Weight training not only is a means to re-shape your physique, but it’s also an excellent way of boosting self-confidence. As your strength increases, so does your confidence and independence. You also constantly leave the gym with a feeling of accomplishment — something you rarely get to feel in real life. How often have you left work feeling like you really accomplished something?

Chris: Good points all around. Cass and Sandy, what do you gals think?

Cassandra: Resistance exercise benefits women in more ways than one. First, weight-bearing movements have been proven scientifically to increase bone mineral density. Since osteoporosis is a common condition for women as they age, weight training is a preventative measure against this widespread epidemic.

Second, weight training increases skeletal muscle tissue. Since muscle is a more metabolically active tissue than adipose, it'll increase calorie expenditure and create a firmer, leaner physique rather than the "skinny-fat" body of most cardio bunnies.

Third, weight training increases resting plasma Testosterone levels in both women and men. Testosterone positively influences emotions and thoughts (you dream and think about sex constantly!). Like the others said, it increases self-confidence by enabling women to take a more aggressive approach to challenges and obstacles. And T increases sexual desire, which is beneficial for everyone!

Sandy: I'll just sum up: Lifting builds muscle, strengthens connective tissue, burns calories, aids in fat loss, helps prevent injuries, and increases metabolism. So why shouldn’t women lift!?

Chris: Let's hope all that info inspires more women to hit the weights. Now, what mistakes do newbie females make in the gym?

Jalaine:: They hire a personal trainer and actually listen to them! Seriously, most newbies underestimate their strength levels, lift too lightly, and do way too many reps.

Patricia: Yes, and many attempt to do too much in too short of time. "I’ve got six weeks 'til bikini season to get into shape" they say, not realizing that this is all for the rest of their lives. The first time a woman enters the gym will be the first of many more sessions for the rest of her life, or at least it should be. A lot of newbie women don't even think of this.

Another mistake is allowing boyfriends or husbands to dictate the training. That’s a huge mistake. Most men don't know a thing about proper form or technique. They just go into the gym to out-lift their buddies. Women embarking on weight training should do some research first. All women have to do is log onto the internet and read T-mag.

Women should never gauge their training performance by what men can do. That’s insane, but it happens, especially with the newbies. Many newbies will give up because they don’t see the exact type of gains made by others (male or female).

I see it this way: Of course there are men stronger than me. There’s also women stronger than me. But then, I’m also stronger than a lot of other men and women. What does it matter? As long as I’m achieving my goals that’s what matters. Weight training and diet is all designed according to the individual.

Eva: Probably the worst mistake would be endless hours of Jane Fonda cardio, with little or no effort on medium to high intensity weights. This would stem from the fear of "bulky" muscle size increase. Another problem is an unwillingness to step outside their comfort zones.

Chris: Sandy, as the world's cutest yet meanest personal trainer, what mistakes do you see women making in the gym?

Sandy: Hey! I'm not mean! I just do what I have to do to get their chunky butts in shape! Anyway, female newbies make the same mistakes that male newbies make. They don’t have a plan (because they don’t know how or what to plan), they do too many exercises, they overwork themselves, overwhelm themselves, and usually expect results too soon and get frustrated.

They think they have to split their body parts up into different workouts right away. They get the words "sets" and "reps" mixed up when reading a Body for Life program (that’s always fun to watch). They also don’t pay attention to their rest periods, they don’t have a clue about nutrition, they think eating a half of a chicken breast in a day is enough to meet their daily protein requirements, and they think that a canned protein shake sold at the juice bar is great for post-workout recovery!

I don’t blame the newbies for these things. There's just not a lot of good information available to them. This kind of stuff spreads around the gym like a bad virus. Before you know it, everyone is doing it.

Cassandra: Also, they don’t ever increase their weights. You see them in the gym for months lifting and pushing the same weight they picked up when they first started out. They just go through the motions. They use improper form and they never ask or attempt to find out how to workout correctly. They just don’t push themselves hard.

Chris: I was just about to mention that, Cass. A couple of our male writers have written that the main problem with females in the gym is mental intensity. In other words, you seldom see a woman grunting and giving it all she's got. It's like she's afraid to look like she's straining. What's up with that?

Patricia: I believe there are a variety of reasons. It’s from years of being told that women are delicate creatures and should be taken care of. Seriously! Think about it. If a woman were to actually display such ferocious intensity in the gym, what potential suitor would want to get near her? She obviously can fend for herself, right?

Oh, and then we have the "rough and tumble" view provided by the various women’s exercise mags. They have photos of women performing exercises literally with a look of serenity on their faces. Now, Chris, I know you enjoy these pics, especially if the models aren’t wearing much, but those photos provide a disservice. They make it so that "exercising" or "working out" should be "easy going" and "enjoyable." And training with intensity and making constant gains ain’t just enjoyable, but exhilarating.

And for some reason, I believe that whole "you should be able to talk" while performing cardio is applied to weight training. Many women that go into the gym believing "working out" means more time should be devoted to conversing and "making friends" in the gym rather than actually training. I see it all the time, women talking during their sets and between their sets, never focusing on the task at hand. A lot of them think that if they were to up the intensity, they’d get ugly, bulky muscles.

Cassandra: Intensity and body awareness are the keys to improving your physique whether you’re female or male. I think many females are afraid to make noise and push themselves while weight training because they don’t want to appear unfeminine. And they don’t want to give away their secrets to faking an orgasm. Wait, did I just admit to that?

Anyway, since weight training is stereotypically a male-orientated sport, most women don’t want to train with this man-like intensity because it may give off the impression that she’s trying to tread into forbidden territory.

Also, there are a lot of guys who act like complete idiots when they weight train. You’ve all seen them; they're the ones who grunt and yell excessively thinking that it somehow makes them look like they have balls o’ steel. These guys try to attempt an exercise or load they clearly can't handle and perform it in the most painstakingly awkward way possible. Most women who see this display of pathetic "machoness" think these guys have the IQ of a cheeseburger. Believe me, it’s not attractive, and no woman in her right mind wants to be like that.

Jalaine:: That's true, you don’t have to grunt and groan to demonstrate intensity. I’ve even been accused of being a "silent" lifter. I only really make noise when I deadlift, and most of that noise is the weight hitting the ground as I pause between reps.

However, I do agree that most women aren't intense enough when lifting. I believe part of it is the fear of hurting themselves. Let’s face it, for most women, training with weights is uncharted territory. For all they know, if you push too hard or struggle too much, you’ll end up pulling a muscle, tearing a tendon, or breaking a nail (did I just say that?).

Another element missing for women is a female competitive atmosphere. Most guys train with intensity because they’re competing with their buddies, that "gotta lift more then he just did" type of mentality. I don’t know what your gym is like, but in my gym I’m the only hardcore female lifter. There’s no one for me to compete with besides myself. Most people won’t push themselves to their limits and beyond without this competition. And let’s face it, the women aren’t even going to attempt to compete with the men, right or wrong. Well, okay, some of us will, but we’re few and far between!

Chris: What do you think, Sandy?

Sandy: First of all, I hardly see guys lifting with that kind of intensity either! That’s because we're lazy! Especially in America, we're fast-paced and are used to having everything at our fingertips. We're the same when it comes to our bodies. We want to look good and feel good, but we don’t want to do the work it takes to get us like that.

We don’t have the discipline to eat what we know we should eat, and we aren't motivated enough to train hard consistently.

We all dream of finding a pill that'll make us lose twenty pounds in two weeks and do "twenty minutes a day, three days a week" and get a "rock-solid body." It just doesn’t work that way, no matter what the commercials say!

Boy, that felt good! Now that I’ve gotten that out of my system, I believe the main reason women lack that kind of intensity is because of the fear they have of getting "too big." They don’t understand the female genetic makeup. They also don’t know about the benefits of weight training. For the most part, women are taught through garbage magazines to do 12 to 25 reps with a moderate weight. I’m not saying doing that many reps with that kind of load doesn’t have its place in some programs, but it doesn’t necessarily require grunting either.

Another reason is because of the exercises they choose. Most women I see "lifting weights" are doing isolation movements that don’t require much exertion, such as dumbbell kickbacks, overhead arm extensions, biceps curls, leg extensions and so forth. Those exercises wouldn’t even make my grandmother grunt!

Chris: Good points. I've noticed than many women new to weight training get hung up on the scale. You try to convince them gaining muscle is good, but all they hear is "gaining."

Patricia: You know, it even took me years before I threw my scale out, so I’ve been there. But you’ll notice that women, in general, are hung up on numbers. The number on the scale, the number on the label of their jeans marking their size, their measurements, etc. It’s insane. None of these numbers take into consideration their individuality.

Women are made to believe that if they don’t fit into a certain range, they aren't acceptable, beautiful, whatever, and that’s just not the case. It’s very confining. It doesn’t allow many women to realize their full physical potential. Just because you’re 5’7" doesn’t mean you should have to weigh a certain amount, but that's always in the back of many women’s heads. "If I don’t fit this criteria, I won't be considered attractive."

The most liberating thing I ever did (besides throwing out that scale) was realize I didn't need to fit into some predetermined peg board with numbers, that I had to fit into someone else’s ideal of the "perfect female." The only thing I concern myself with is doing whatever it takes to improve my athletic performance.

In the end, the scale is a waste of time and space. It doesn’t measure performance; it keeps a woman at the starting gate, never allowing her to grow and improve as an individual.

Eva: Also, I think the scale has a great impact on a person's mind frame. As an extrinsic motivation too, the results are always short lived. The scale isn't accurate in detecting body composition. There are much more accurate ways to follow progress.

Jalaine:: I can’t even count how many women in the discussion forums have complained about how they aren’t losing weight, then mention their clothes are all fitting looser. Muscle weighs more than fat, and a muscular body is tighter and more condensed than a fat body. Toss that scale out the window!

Cassandra: It's very easy for women to get hooked on numbers. Typically, success for women is measured on how much weight they can lose. Women are subjected to the bombardments of advertisements claiming "I lost 120 pounds in four weeks on the grapefruit diet!" And you'll be hard pressed to find a gym locker room that doesn't have a scale in it.

So, women tend to think if they don’t lose some body weight with training then the training is bunk, and they’ll stop. As we all realize though, the impact of weight training is the development of more muscle, and as Jalaine said, muscle weighs more than fat. So as women lose fat and gain muscle, even though their bodies become smaller and tighter, and look damn sexier, their body weight will either stay the same or increase. They then get frustrated with the lack of scale weight loss and usually return back to their original cardio obsession.

Sandy: Yes, the scale is complicated! For the most part, I’ve found the scale to be very useful when it comes to dealing with my clients, although I don’t let them get too hung up on it. I explain to them that the scale is to be used as a tool, but not the only tool in which to go by.

I explain to them that the scale only reads your weight. It doesn't tell you if the weight you lost was water, fat, or muscle. I also make sure I explain the importance of weighing themselves on the same scale at the same time of day (in the morning, before breakfast, and after visiting Mr. Toilet). I know it sounds elementary, but I’ve had people sincerely believe they gained four pounds in one day because they weighed themselves in the morning and again at night.

I've learned over time that I have to read each client and how they handle both losing and gaining weight. I’ll explain what I mean. I have this one client who gets on the scale regularly. If she gains a pound, she gets mad at herself and starts paying closer attention to her portion sizes and her cheat meals. If she loses a pound, she gets excited and is proud of herself and this keeps her motivated to continue doing what she’s doing.

I’ve also seen the opposite happen. I’ve had clients tell me that they got on the scale and gained a pound so they got depressed and went out and had pizza and ice cream! On the flip side, I’ve had clients lose a pound and think they "deserve a treat" so they lighten up on their dieting and before long the scale is going in the opposite direction.

I just recently got my mother into the gym and she's the type of person who needs to be held accountable. Therefore, I make her weigh herself on Tuesdays and Fridays (both days I train her) and because she knows she has to weigh herself and give me her weight, she thinks twice about what she’s eating.

So from my experiences, the scale can be both good and bad. When I have a new client, I make them weigh themselves on the first morning of our second session and write it down somewhere. To be honest with you guys, I don’t focus on my client’s weight, for the first few weeks anyway. I focus mostly on their energy level and enthusiasm when they come into the gym. When people start to eat correctly and give their body the right nutrients, boy, what a difference that makes in their energy level! This tells me they're eating better and that I’m not pushing them too hard in the gym, to the point of overtraining or overwhelming them. I also look for them to say, "I’m not losing weight but my clothes are fitting looser." If these things are happening, I know we’re doing okay.

Chris: Good info. What exercises are most neglected by babes-in-training?

Patricia: Two of the "big three" compound exercises: squats and deads. I’m also beginning to believe that more and more women should begin adding some sort of Olympic lift into their routines, that is, if there’s someone available to properly coach them on form and technique.

Chris: What do you think women are leaving out, Eva?

Eva: Deadlifts, squats, front squats, cleans and jerks, wide grip chins, weighted dips, and all Olympic lifts.

Jalaine:: Yes, all compound movements. Drop the five pound dumbbell you’re using for those dumbbell kickbacks and do some close grip presses! Dips, pull-ups, bench, deads, squats, rows — all are exercises that separate the women from the girls.

Sandy: I agree — compound movements.

Cassandra: Women neglect to perform exercises that are mostly dominated by, and directed at, men. These include compound movements like the bench press, military press, deadlift and squat. These exercises are considered to be too manly, and women don’t think they should do them.

Another reason women avoid these exercises is that they're difficult to perform and require good technique to execute properly. Most women don’t want to make themselves strain or struggle with an exercise, so they stick to Apex machines and light free-weights. How many women have you seen doing forty reps of five-pound dumbbell curls over and over again? Too many, but that's why I step in and help them.

Chris: Sounds like big compound movements are the missing ingredient for sure! Now, there are some very minor differences in men and women when it comes to strength training. Patricia, list those for us please.

Patricia: First off, you have to make sure your hair and makeup are in order before you go to the gym. No, no, I’m kidding!

Christian Thibaudeau provided a great outline in the recent article Fun with Women. Here's a summary:

1. More reps per set. Women don't have the capacity to recruit as many motor units as men do. As such, we'll need a couple more reps to fully stimulate our muscles. Women can generally perform one to two more reps per set than men. So, for strength gains, women can perform three to six reps as compared to a man’s one to five reps. For hypertrophy, women’s rep ranges are seven to twelve; men’s are five to ten, generally speaking of course.

2. More sets per exercise, just slightly. Women can perform a couple more sets than men.

3. With the above in mind, a slightly less intense training session is needed. With the increased reps and sets, women will need a slight decrease of intensity to be able to make continual gains.

Christian also suggested women use exercises that court the nervous system acutely: Olympic lifts in general as well as the compound movements like squats and deads. He also listed lunges and push presses. I agree wholeheartedly with the recommendations!

Chris: What info have you found, Eva?

Eva: Well, first, there have been observed differences between genders in acute hormonal responses to resistance exercise. Women tend to have smaller muscle cross-sectional areas for biceps brachii, total elbow flexors, vastus lateralis, and total knee extensors, which accounted for strength differences. There's a gender discrepancy in upper-body strength between men and women that's most likely attributed to the lower proportion of lean tissue in the upper body of women. The amount of the load to begin with is usably relative to the body weight. A person with a greater lean mass will tend to be stronger.

Furthermore, a higher Testosterone level will affect recovery speed and lead to quicker strength gains. Something I'd also take into consideration would be that a woman’s center of gravity is in her hips and a male's is in his shoulders.

Next week in Part II, the vixens will discuss diet and things men do in the gym to piss them off.